Governing Your Marketo Engage Instance with Ease Using Audit Trail and Campaign Inspector

Transcript

Hi everyone, welcome to Experience Makers, the Skill Exchange. Today’s topic is going to be governing your Marketo engage instance with ease using Audit Trail and Campaign Inspector. My name is Annie Ramirez and I am a business consultant here at Adobe. Today we’re going to go over the following. First we’re going to do a quick introduction and overview, and then we’re going to talk about Audit Trail. Cover the basics real quick. What is this feature? Where can you find it? What can you find using it? Most importantly, what should you look for and how often? Then we’re going to dive into the Campaign Inspector feature. Again, what is it? Where to find it? But then also what to look for, particularly when it comes to batch and trigger campaigns. We’re going to dive really deep on one of the most common issues I see with my clients, which is triaging cumbersome trigger campaigns. That’s really where we’re going to go in depth the most today. And then we’ll end everything with some key actions and a wrap up. So in general, while we will be covering some basics real quickly, this particular presentation is meant for intermediate to advanced users of Marketo. Even though you all are probably very familiar with these two features, I really want to take this next step further to see how this can really help you level up your automation team, help you scale your business, and really govern your instance in a very smooth and efficient way that sometimes people don’t utilize to its fullest. All right. Before we go any further, though, into talking about the features, I’d love to give a brief introduction and overview. Again, my name is Annie Ramirez. I have been a Marketo business consultant here at Adobe for almost three years now. I am a former Adobe Summit speaker. So if you were at Summit in 2023 in the spring, I was there. And I really, really enjoy speaking about the product and helping people make the most use out of it through that way. I’m also a former MOPS manager and a marketer myself, in addition to being a project manager. So I’m PMP certified. And I found that these sort of three areas of my career have really made me strong in terms of helping clients in terms of the consulting space. So some of my key skills and specialties include custom migrations from non-Marketo products that I have experience in into Marketo, implementations, and custom Marketo work with a specialty in connecting these cross-functional teams to maximize efficiency and ROI of the tool. So I’m really passionate about pulling teams together, making the most of your instance, and using those three areas of my career to have you make the most of what you do in Marketo, both from a technical standpoint, but also from a strategic team-based standpoint, communication, you know, processes, all that kind of stuff. So we’re going to talk a little bit about first why is governance important as a whole. This is something that even some of the most advanced users that we see tend to overlook or not have a process around that’s really critical. So it’s really important to have an ongoing pulse on your instance. What’s happening in it? What’s the health of it? What are people doing in it? What’s being changed? And especially if you want to scale your team to be larger and you want to scale the business, this is going to be even more important as you grow. This can also help you, especially if you’re in some sort of management position or you’re a mops manager, to really aid in your career growth and results. It’ll be easier to track your KPIs, manage a larger team, and everybody wins in the end. It’s helpful to have an established routine. This saves you time. It makes communication with your team easier, and it makes you less likely to make important mistakes on campaigns that are going out the door to your customers. What we often see is even in the most advanced customers, this is being missed. So I wanted to share a quick story of a very sophisticated customer in the SaaS space or software as a service space that had this issue. So this particular customer was great at leveraging us to do what we have offered on the consulting side that’s called an optimization review. Every year, they would pay us to do one of these reviews and check on their instance, which gave us really good year-over-year data on what has been changed. However, one of the things that we found was really important was that in between those annual checks, we really didn’t find that the customer was regularly on their own having a process to governing their instance, to checking what was being added, deleted, sent out the door, how many users are in their instance. They just didn’t have that awareness. And so when we did these annual reviews, we felt like it was a miss because the customer was unaware that things had gone on for months, maybe not being as ideal as they could in their instance. So one of our feedback back to them was to give them a little bit more of a checklist and structure on how to regularly keep these items in their instance from getting out of control. So even the most advanced users, you know, were operating on the fly in Marketo, were trying to get campaigns out the door, things get busy. In this case, it’s important to step back, take a breath, and have a clear line of sight into what’s happening in your instance before it becomes a bigger issue. So that being said, that’s a great segue into the two features that we’re going to talk specifically about today that can help you improve your governance. So the first one is audit trail. I’m sure you’re all very familiar with this, but I’m going to give a quick overview just in case there are any of those in the call who are not. So audit trail includes a few components. So the first is the asset audit trail. This is where you can see activity that’s done to specific assets. And then we have the admin audit trail, which is where we can monitor user-based details. Last, we have our user login history. So we can see who’s been logging into your subscription and when. You can find many things in audit trail. You can see create, edit, and delete actions for design studio assets, smart campaigns, programs, smart and static lists, users, roles and permissions, workspaces and partitions, and again, that user login history. So it covers a pretty broad area across your instance. You have to make sure that this is enabled. So on the right-hand side, you’ll see some visuals here on where you can go to do that. Under edit role, access admin, access edit role. By default, all admin roles will have this feature enabled, but not everybody else. Now, if you want to export some of this data, which can be very helpful, you do have to know that you can only view 30 days’ worth of that data in your instance. So in order to obtain more than three months, so if you want up to six months’ worth, you have to use the export option and take it outside of Marketo. And beyond that, the data is not saved. All right, now that we went over how AuditTrail works, where to find it, and some of the basics, I want to talk a little bit more specifically about how to use AuditTrail for regular governance, like we were talking about earlier. So you’ll see in this table here, I have some suggested cadences across four different categories of things you can look up in AuditTrail. You’ll see that in that kind of third column over that there…it’s under frequency, it says three months. And I want to kind of emphasize that that is an average recommendation. So while in general or on average, I would recommend to someone to basically check these things roughly every quarter or so, this really depends on the size of your team and how many people are in the tool, and also how many campaigns you’re trying to get out the door every day, how much activity is in there. So if you have a really small team with maybe only like two to three people in your instance, and you’re only launching a new campaign every week or so, you may only need to check something like this, every six months. If you have a really large team and you’re constantly getting new things out the door, it may be as frequent as one. So this is kind of where I land in the middle there is on a quarterly basis, but make sure that you really evaluate that with your team and your business. So the first category are programs. You kind of want to look in general at how many programs have been created and deleted in your instance in that range of time. And you can filter that in AuditTrail based on the dates. You want to ensure that generally programs aren’t being created in mass or important programs aren’t being deleted, but rather our best practice, which is archiving them. For smart campaigns, same thing. Take a look at how many are being created and deleted and ensure that this is as you expect. A lot of things happen in a vacuum, and it’s hard for us while we’re trying to ship campaigns quickly to constantly tell people, you know, hey, I’ve got this going out the door. So this is why you as the person who’s governing your instance need to be responsible for keeping an eye on that. You also want to make sure that numerous smart campaigns are being created to best practices, including the ratio of batch to trigger campaigns. And we’re going to dive into this in a lot more detail later. Then I recommend checking your user login history. So kind of speaks for itself when users have last logged in. As a best practice, we recommend that typically you have no more than 90 days of inactivity, or you may consider deleting that user. Last but not least, you also want to look into roles and permissions. So making sure to see if any roles or permissions have been modified and if that is as expected and aligns with your governance documentation. So sometimes I’ve seen a permission be changed really quickly for like a quick fix. So let’s say someone from maybe an agency is helping you design something, and you quickly give them the ability to create a new campaign entirely. But that’s not something that you regularly prefer to do. I see a lot of times where someone will do that and it won’t get changed back. So you’ll see these kind of temporary roles that are helping you in your instance start to get more and more control. And you just want to be careful that you keep an eye on that across the board and that aligns with your expectations. So just make sure that those permissions and roles don’t get too loose and that you’re giving a regular eye on what’s happening there. Now I want to share something really exciting, which is kind of hot off the press. And this has been kind of teased for a few months now, and it’s here. And there’s some new release features of a couple things that you can find now in Audit Trail brand new. So that is first webhook creation, deletion, and edit. Those actions are now captured in admin Audit Trail. And then import events are also captured when users are doing this directly in a program. So these can also be very, very useful as well. We encourage you to check that out. They’re now live in the tool. And we will also share out some formal product documentation on these new release features. All right, now we’re going to launch into more detail about the campaign inspector feature. So again, what is this and where can you find it? Campaign inspector is found in your Marketo activity section under the campaign inspector tab, if you’ve enabled this. You do want to make sure that you go in and manually enable this feature in the admin section of your instance. Otherwise, you just simply won’t see the option to locate it. It features a campaign type filtering and export feature. It evaluates your instance by workspace. And it includes smart campaign details such as type, campaign name, triggers, activity filters, flow actions, and last modified. Now, I think we’ve probably all seen campaign inspector at this point. So I’m not going to spend too long on that. But what I really want to dive into a little bit more that I often get a lot of questions on from clients are how to triage troublesome trigger campaigns. And what I mean by that is a combination of different things. My campaign isn’t firing fast enough. Marketo isn’t prioritizing campaigns that are really important, or this is potentially slowing my instance down. But how do I actually know what the root cause is of that? So let’s talk a little bit about the problem and some solutions. So again, the primary problem that I see is that generally campaigns are taking longer than they should to process up against your expectations of their urgency. And they fire more slow when they’re high priority to the business. There’s kind of two general ways to look at this, but it also is going to help to understand how Marketo evaluates and queues up campaigns. So we’ll talk about that as well. The two general solutions we’re going to go over today are A, to regularly use campaign inspector to audit those trigger campaigns every quarter or so, again, on average based on the size of your business and activity in Marketo. But then also using audit trail to do a campaign priority override. So first, let’s talk a little bit about how Marketo does campaign queuing. So when a flow is launched, Marketo assigns it a priority in the system on the back end that queues it for execution. Priority is based on how the campaign was launched. So whether it was from a trigger campaign, a batch, or resume from wait. So in terms of priority levels, the ones that typically end up being high are flow steps that have send email, which is triggered, or send alert. Medium priority levels include request campaign, an interesting moment, create task, convert slash delete lead, add to slash remove from list, change sales owner slash progression status, revenue stage slash field and program, change member of, add to or remove from, sync to Salesforce, or change status in the Salesforce campaign. Low priority level flow steps tend to be change data value, change score, wait steps with a wait time of more than five minutes, and web hooks. So when it comes to these cumbersome trigger campaigns, the other thing you want to do is to first evaluate high latency triggers. So high latency, meaning they take more time. So high latency triggers are typically our repeat offenders seem to be change data value. Email is delivered, lead is created, visits web page, a program member status change, or a member of a smart campaign. One thing you can do to help a little bit with this is to use wait steps in between. You can also deactivate the campaign if it’s simply not being used or to default to a batch campaign if it’s not mission critical. And we can use campaign inspector and campaign queue to do all of this. Now, in general, I want to summarize all of the different facets that slow down a campaign. So the campaign’s priority level, which we talked about earlier, the complexity of smart list filters used, high latency triggers, which we mentioned some of our repeat offenders, number of records that qualify for the campaign, the number of flow steps used in the campaign. So how large is this campaign? How many people are qualifying for this and how often? The complexity of the choices in your flow steps and flow steps that take longer than most. So send email, delete lead, sync lead to sales, add lead to Salesforce campaign, and call webhook. All of this to say this gives you some tools and some ingredients to be able to get more effective at looking at trigger campaigns quicker and understanding if they could be causing the issue. So use campaign inspector again, roughly every quarter, maybe more, maybe less, depending on how often these campaigns are being created, these active trigger campaigns and evaluate based on the criteria mentioned previously. So a combination of your high latency triggers and flow steps, the complexity and size of that smart campaign in the flow steps up against the true business need and urgency for that campaign. My rule of thumb is when everyone thinks that a campaign is super mission critical, it’s like when everything’s on fire, nothing’s on fire anymore. So if everything is critical and high priority for the system, everything becomes low priority because the system’s trying to do it all at once. So it’s very important to have discussions with your team on what makes a smart campaign truly mission critical and does it need to be a trigger campaign? So ultimately using some of that criteria and having those guidelines with your team, you can choose whether to deactivate, make that campaign a batch instead, or use the override campaign priority feature if this is truly business critical. So that’s what we’re going to talk about next. So this is a feature that is to be used sparingly. Again, if everything’s on fire, nothing’s on fire. So these campaigns really do need to stand out as your top business critical ones. And what you’ll do is you’ll override the Marketo engaged, determined priority level for all trigger campaigns and set those priorities that better align with your business objectives. As a best practice product recommends that we limit this to about 25 business critical campaigns. So for reference, I’ve seen clients who have hundreds of active trigger campaigns with very large businesses. So it is justified. However, 25 campaigns that use this feature can be hit very quickly. So we really want to stress that this is truly, truly your top campaigns. And I’ll just give an example of one of the most common ones that I’ve seen. And that is when you have a new lead come into Marketo because they’ve watched a demo video for, let’s say, your product and they want to speak to sales or they fill out a speak to sales form. That’s someone who’s a hot lead. They’re really interested in your business and we want to get them immediately over to, let’s say, Salesforce or Dynamics, whatever your CRM is, and get that sales lead paint. That is one of the most common business critical smart campaigns that I’ve seen that’s applicable to many businesses where you may want to ultimately use this feature. Now, as a general best practice, we’re very quick to make things a trigger campaign. Again, everyone thinks their smart campaign needs to go out the door the quickest. And we have to be very careful about not making that a habit. Trigger campaigns are extremely useful. And yes, we want things to update in real time. But I really challenge you and your team to think about when you create these new campaigns, is that really the case? We always recommend that when in doubt, make it a batch campaign, make it run daily, make it run twice daily. You could even do that. But in general, I think there’s a lot of cases where we could turn something into a batch that would really help those true business critical trigger campaigns be able to fire effectively and take top priority in the system. Now, with that, I want to leave you with some key actions and takeaways from today’s call and a brief wrap up. So our key actions that we can use for both AuditTrail and Campaign Inspector are as follows. You want to leverage AuditTrail on a roughly quarterly basis, again, depending on the size of your business and activity level in the tool to review your programs, smart campaigns, login history and roles and permissions at a minimum. Utilize Campaign Inspector to audit your trigger campaigns on a quarterly basis. Look to see how many are being created. Can they be batched? And really audit that as you go and really make those key business critical trigger campaigns stand out to keep your system running super smoothly. So that is our kind of summary of how you can use AuditTrail and Campaign Inspector to govern your instance with ease. I would love to open it up to the rest of the group for some Q&A. And for those who stayed on so far, thank you so much for listening. I hope that this is helpful. That was an amazing presentation, Annie. Thank you for sharing your valuable advice for maintaining a clean and efficient instance. We’ll now open the floor for the audience to ask questions. Please drop them in the chat. Our first question is, are admins able to change what flow staff align to which priority level? Thanks, Amy. Great question. So in a nutshell, super, super high level. The answer is no. That is determined by the back end of the system itself, which is exactly why we wanted to give you all some of these workarounds to find a way around that or find a way to at least analyze that, not only by looking at the various flow steps that you have in the campaign, but then also possibly using that campaign priority override. Since we don’t have complete control of what the system does, there are ways to kind of work around that with your team. But again, at a high level, admins cannot just automatically change that priority in the way that the system views those flow steps and how it prioritizes them. Thank you for answering that. And the next question, this attendee is curious about what is being considered an overly complex smart filter and flow staff? Is there a rough amount assuming no heavy triggers or flow steps being used in the smart campaigns? There’s not necessarily a rough amount. Every campaign is going to be very different. But in general, we’re looking for a large amount of smart filter combinations and or flow steps with a lot of complex conditions to it. We also see sometimes a longer lag time on a campaign firing if it references multiple other smart campaigns within it. So X campaign has to fire before X action can happen. So when you have a lot of those interdependencies between campaigns, that can cause some slowdown as well. And then also sometimes we see a little bit of slowdown when it comes to using executable campaigns. Thank you for answering that. Now there’s a question about the template. I think this attendee is probably referring to like smart campaign templates or program templates. So how can we lock the templates that certain users can use them but not added them? These users should be able to use the templates to clone and then added those programs. OK, so I think if I’m understanding the question correctly, just kind of reading this back as well from my own understanding, you don’t want someone to be able to directly edit, but you want someone to be able to see them and maybe repurpose them, make them their own. The short answer, from what I’m understanding from the question, would be most likely to make sure that whatever person’s role that is in the tool has view access to, let’s say, campaigns, if that’s what you’re referencing, but not edit access. They should be able to clone them, but therefore not change the original version. Thank you for sharing that. The next question here is, can you set up an alert if someone overwrites or changes a campaign priority to high? Yes, I believe you can. I personally have never done that, but I am aware that that should be something that you can do. However, I’d have to look back to see if it’s something that you can do through the tool itself, or if you’d have to set up some kind of manual way to do that in Marketo. So I have not tested that to confirm. One way or another, yes, that is a possibility. The next question here is slightly different. It’s about cleaning up users. This attendee wants to know, what’s the best approach for API users that are no longer in place? Remove launch point service, then expire the users. What else would you consider doing? Interesting. I think unfortunately with this question, it is a good question, but there isn’t one statement, one clear yes or no answer to that. It really depends on the situation that you’re experiencing. It depends on if you’re still using that launch point service and what it is. In a nutshell, I’ve done it multiple ways with different clients, but it really depended on their situation. So in that particular case, I’d have to understand a little bit more of the context of how you’re using API users and what types of integrations. If this particular person who asked this question wants to talk to me about it in more detail and give me some more background, I’d love to chat. So you’re welcome to message me on LinkedIn under my name, Annie Ramirez, and we can kind of chat about that further. Thanks, Danny, for sharing that additional way to connect with you. For the next question, this is about webhook. It is not directly related, but I’m curious about what you think of this attendees question. They asked about, can we see what was the previous version of the webhook before it was edited? Yeah, that’s a great question. So I believe that this is related to the kind of hot off the press product update that I gave as far as audit trail now being able to look at actions taken on webhooks. So full disclosure, I have not even had a chance to play around with this yet, this is such a new update. So I don’t feel comfortable confirming that yet. And I’d certainly like to go in there and check it out. I would think that you probably could. However, I have not taken a look yet. So I’d actually love to see if anyone in the chat has tested that out yet in their Marketo instance and let us know what they found. Great, thank you for sharing that. And just be on the lookout for more details on that newly enhanced features. There will be more information on Experiencely for you to browse through. Now let’s look at the next question. Are there more details that you can find using the audit trail besides what you listed in the presentation? Yeah, so in one of the kind of introductory slides I listed, I did list everything that you could find in audit trail. But when I was specifically talking about auditing, I listed about four key areas to look that I felt were the most helpful. However, there are more than just the four I noted. So for example, you can see if things have been changed, edited, or viewed as far as design studio assets, lists, and workspaces, and partitions, and then the couple of features that I noted that were brand new as far as web hooks and events. So yes, there are more that you’re able to see. I just found that those four particular ones that I mentioned were the most helpful to check on a regular basis. Great, thanks for sharing. And curious from your perspective, once you are able to find things with audit trail and campaign inspector, what would you do in the documentation? Yeah, so I think at bottom line, you’ll want to create documentation either if your company uses some kind of project management tool as their source of truth, or even simply an Excel document where you can keep an ongoing list of this. Even if you as one person own this document, it’s always important to have documentation that’s highly visible to the rest of your team and can be taken over or used by someone else in your absence or if your role changes. And so I think that’s really the bottom line. Something that I have created that I share with a lot of companies that I consult with that I found to be a real value add is I created a simple Excel document. And each of the columns that are in that Excel document are ranked based on like number of flow steps, number of filters, complexity, or queue time, all the things we talked about today. I found a way to kind of rank your smart campaigns by using this table. So long story short, if you work with us and professional services, that’s something that we can provide you, but it’s also something that you could tinker around with and create on your own that I think is incredibly helpful. Thank you for sharing that. Next, I would love to also hear from you. What roles in my marketing organization would typically own this type of instance governance? Sure. So this all really depends on the size of your team. So if it’s like a small team of maybe one to five people, I would say, you’re going to see that as like your power user or your admin, the person who’s really responsible for the outcomes in Marketo and the governance. If it’s a slightly medium sized to larger team, we’ll usually see that person being called a mops or marketing ops manager, or it could be multiple people. So especially if you keep in mind, if there’s more than one person who has joint ownership over the account, that’s where it’s going to be really important to again, have visibility, have sign off and be very clear with those people that you’re working on when it comes to this regular governance. Because if you’re quantifying something as right or wrong in your instance differently than everybody else, there’s going to be a lot of communication gaps there. So again, I really just want to stress that when it comes to whoever owns governance, it doesn’t mean that it’s just them doing it alone. This should be something where everyone’s buying in together, signing off and it’s being shown on a regular basis and reported out to the rest of your team. Thanks for sharing. And it really also depends on the organization structure and size. So definitely would depend on the resources that you have internally. You emphasize a lot on trigger campaign versus batch campaigns. What are your suggestions on coaching your marketing users on prioritizing trigger campaigns versus batch campaigns? Yeah, that’s a really, really good question. So we kind of talked a little bit about how to do that or what to look for. But when it comes to actually strategizing, that’s kind of a second area of tackling all of this. So the first thing I would say is kind of going back to what I mentioned in the last answer, which is get that buy-in and get it early. Make sure that you’re aligned, even if you’re the person leading the charge on this. So I would suggest if you haven’t set up any kind of regular governance strategy, get a meeting together with some of your key stakeholders. So who’s interested in the outcomes of what happens in Marketo? Probably a lot of people, right? Marketing sales, your marketing ops team, get them together in a call and talk a little bit about a proposed set of criteria. So you as that person owning it, come up with a list of what you feel makes a campaign very high priority, tangible things, and talk to your team about creating some kind of definition. So for example, you could have like a P0 level down to a P3, P0 being highest priority. Talk about what tangibly makes that campaign high priority. So one of the main examples I’ve seen is if someone requests a demo and it’s a brand new person or lead coming into the system, that’s going to be a really high level campaign. If it’s simply an update to a field in someone’s record, like their address, that may not be as critical, that can be a lower priority and or a batch. So just make sure that whatever you do going forward, that it’s agreed upon by your group and that they’re very easy to define. That would be my recommendation on how to make that easier because you will not be the person who’s creating every campaign most likely. Multiple people are involved in that process. So they also need to be clued in on that. Thanks for sharing that thought. This question is about, I can’t find my audit trail or campaign inspector in my instance. Why would that happen and how do I troubleshoot this? Yeah, another good question. So kind of two part answer here. So by default, all admin related roles in the system should have audit trail permissions enabled, but if someone went back and changed that or unchecked that at some point, you’ll want to go back and make sure that that’s been checked off. Campaign inspector, you actually have to go into the admin section of your instance. There’s a checkbox to mark that off and then you will be able to see that in the marketing activities area of your instance. So you’ll have to make sure that you actually go in and enable that campaign inspector manually. Thanks for sharing that. We’ll ask one more question here. We have three minutes left and if you have more questions, please pop them into the chat. So Annie, what would be your advice for any MarketoEngage administrators to implement this governance in their organization? What would be the first step that they should take? That’s a good question. So what I would do is the first thing, as I mentioned earlier, was to figure out who are your key stakeholders in this situation, who needs to have a say in this. Get a call scheduled with those people. While you’re waiting for that call to happen, I would start creating some templates and some documentation that you’ll begin to populate. So like I mentioned earlier, that spreadsheet where you’re tracking campaigns, a document where you start to have maybe a table highlighting what defines a P0 versus like a P3 campaign. Get those tools in place so that you’re ready to present those to your team and find a home for them. Have those two things happen in parallel and then once you get your team together and you guys can decide on these various criteria, then all you have to do is plug and paste then all you have to do is plug and play. So set your reminders on your calendar for let’s say every three months. Check X, Y, and Z. Populate your data. Find some way to easily get a report out to those stakeholders, whether it’s an email or something like that and continue forward. The other thing you might want to address with that group and for yourself as whoever’s owning governance is when you do find something that’s not ideal or something going on in your instance, how do you plan on addressing that? Every organization is different in the way that they communicate change and you’ll just want to make sure that you have a clear process for if something is found that’s not ideal, how do you fix it and how do you let team members know that you’ve changed something? You certainly don’t want to go deleting things without telling people on your team, especially if it’s a campaign that you didn’t create or that could impact something in the tool or even on the sales side if it’s something that is integrating with your CRM. Thanks for sharing that. Just also curious, personally I’ve seen others using spreadsheets to track changes made. Is that an approach that applies to different organizations or what would be a more effective way, Annie, you suggest the audience should try? That’s a good question and it’s a broad question too. It really depends on the organization and it is a bit more manual than we would like. Obviously, there are ways to view data live in the tool. For example, for audit trail you can view changes that were made in the last 30 days live in the tool, but if you want more than 30 days worth of data, you have to export it as an Excel. I really go back to making sure that things are in a visible, shareable place and a clear folder structure is very important. Unfortunately, there’s not too much of a replacement for just good organization. My number one thing is to just always make sure that whatever you have is hosted in a clear, like a OneDrive or a cloud space so that it’s not just on your desktop and other people can see it. Thank you so much for coming to the Skill Exchange Q&A, Annie.